the shunning policy has torn my family apart.
What the new JW light position really is š
by ElderBerry 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ElderBerry
There are so many bad things in this world and everyone wants to pin the blame somewhere.
Satan is convenient if you believe that. Iām agnostic which means it may be true or it may not be.
You win some you lose some.
Try to find peace and contentment and realise that you donāt have the entire truth about the matter of how the universe started, but donāt worry nobody else does either. Always be sceptical and think it may be true.
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Phizzy
With the J.W "religion" being as "light" as it has ever been I guess there are a good number of returnees, people who left a good while ago going back returning to restore normal family relationships.
I learned of two yesterday, the guy NEVER has been a believer in the J.W nonsense, brought up in it, never baptised, now in his mid thirties. His new wife I do not know, she may have been the reason he went back.
This kind of returnee will boost numbers a little, but will do little to strengthen the religion, more likely it will weaken it, as people like that young guy will be seen to get away with a lot, he did throughout his teens, nothing the Elders could do, he was unbaptised. They used to give him a good talking to now and again, but he nodded and agreed, and then carried on as usual !
The whole J.W "light" idea is to boost numbers and keep the $$$ flowing in.
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Anony Mous
That is probably the most callous comment Iāve seen since leaving the JW in response to comments about you calling out the fact that you are supporting an evil organization, children losing their innocence to child predators enabled by the JW org and families being torn apart.You truly prove you donāt care about anyone but yourself and youāre just an elder that doesnāt want to lose his position of power but still wants to profit from āthis worldā, just like most elders I have known in my past - Pharisees.- There are so many bad things in this world and everyone wants to pin the blame somewhere.
Satan is convenient if you believe that. Iām agnostic which means it may be true or it may not be.
You win some you lose some.
Trust me, your friends arenāt true friends, even your wife may not truly love you more than she does them. In āthe worldā you can have true friends when there is no demands that keep you together.
- There are so many bad things in this world and everyone wants to pin the blame somewhere.
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carla
A hearty applause for Anony Mouse last post!
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ElderBerry
Anony Mouse everyone wants to pin the blame of all the bad things on something. Many pin on Satan there are some who pin them on Jehovah. Iām agnostic so yeah, you go ahead and pin the blame on whoever you want.
If you want to pin the blame of all these bad things on the JW religion then who am I to say you are wrong.
You may be right, thatās exactly why I am JW lite!
I take offence to your accusation that I am defending the JWs, nothing could be further from the truth. You obviously still do not understand PIMA or what the new JW lite really is.
But Iām not trying to change your mind you go ahead and believe whatever you want and I will choose to believe what I want, which is PIMA.
But please donāt make the mistake of calling everyone who goes to a church or place of worship a hypocrite if they are PIMA to that religion.
The truth is most members of any religious organisation including JWs are actually like me, they are PIMA if they are truly honest with themselves.
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carla
Elderberry are just pretending to be so dense?
If someone goes to a church and are agnostic they usually would have no problem saying so. For example, they might say things like; "I am really just here for the social aspect, my wife wants me here with the kids, I enjoy the music, I am agnostic and would like to learn more, I am lonely and this fills a few hours, I'm checking out the men/women, I like the charity work they do, etc... etc..."
Not one of those comments could you say in a kh and NOT have repercussions as many here live on a daily basis. If you went to a normal church and said " I think it is all b.s. (and for long time jw's that does not mean bible study) and there is no God and when we die that's it" nobody would treat you like a leper, keep you away from your children & family or anything. They might think you a bit of a nutter but they might think you are still a pretty good guy, hey, at least you would be honest. Maybe treating you as a fellow child of God in a heartfelt way would do you some good for all, not love bombed so all can see who is the best at it or just for show.
There are no repercussions if you leave a church that is not a cult. How is this so hard for you to understand? that is why you are a hypocrite. You tell people what to believe, how to act you might even sit on a judicial meeting (whatever they are called now) and sit in judgment and affect someone's entire life and that of their family even though you aren't even sure there is a God and you don't mind mere men in NY telling you and everybody else how to live! Are you unable to admit even to yourself that you are a selfish self serving hypocrite live the life of riley while others suffer due to people like you? How do you look at yourself in the mirror? how do you sleep?
I understand staying in for family but at least step down from all so called 'privileges' that can affect a persons life.
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Anony Mous
@carla: this is exactly true. Iām moving from atheist to agnostic/cultural Christianity, not baptized in the church nor member, and the pastor shook my hand today and congratulated me on my being accepted on a church committee. This would NEVER happen in JW-land.
@elderberry: what you call JW lite is not new. It is the position of almost every single elder with family or every single rich JW Iāve ever known over the past 40 years - rules for thee but not for me.
Iāve known people that have worked with Michael Jackson and reportedly MJ and his mother and a lot of the Jackson family was raised if not baptized JW, as are the Williams sisters as well who not so long ago posed nude on a retail magazine. Iāve known an elder 20 years ago, he owned a huge road construction and equipment rental business you may have heard of, had a contract with the US RBC. Iāve visited with the Vogel family who have a huge retail homeopathy empire (and are all JW, source their employees from to the local branch office in the Netherlands).
Guess what was common with all those people: they were rich, they all had fancy cars, them or their kids all got positions as elder or branch/circuit overseer, them or their kids rarely went in service (and donāt think about using their 9-seat SUV for service, no, it was me in my rusty ā97 Buick), their visits to the KH were sporadic at best (like you and me wouldāve gotten counseled), and they took the rules rather unserious, if you were on the āinā at least their pool party get-togethers were not even moral by āworldlyā standards, they were like Hollywood depictions of college frat parties, their daughters got unexpectedly pregnant etc. But they never get into trouble because they were rich and thatās what it is all about when you go deeper into the cult, just like the Scientologists or the Mormons.
I have been ādeepā in the organization, as you can see from some of my leaks I did a long time ago. I pin the blame on the JW organization because their policies are the cause of many issues that continue hurting people to date, including myself and my family, that is not a subjective reality, I can quote you the things I was told, I have published here the āProtecting children from the misuse of bloodā handout that the WTBTS denies the existence of in court. What youāre basically saying is that Jews just wanted to pin the blame on the Nazis for their troubles during WW2, āthey may be rightā - like WTF, youāre tone deaf.
Iām not calling you out on your belief, it truly doesnāt matter to me whether you believe the explanation of the Bible verses, thatās irrelevant. Iāve changed my position on that many times over the years. Iām calling you out on your actions or lack thereof which speaks to your objective moral depravity which may not be your fault, you were shaped like that as well by the organization, but you have to recognize when something is wrong, and then do something about it. You donāt seem to be mature enough to understand the damage caused yet, but youāre an elder, you are legally going to be held responsible for your congregation, be very careful if youāre going to continue pursuing this lifestyle.
You can read my history, including my recent history, Iām now in a position where I would be rich and an elder as well, I couldāve done what you do and shut my mouth and raise my kids in the same way as some of the elders I have known over the past decades. But I could not live with myself, once the handout āProtect your children from the misuse of bloodā was given to me, I was told by the elders the various āoutsā to the rules - have your child removed from your custody, say it was a lapse of judgment, just donāt tell anyone etc. Iām not sure if you ever had to do the spiel with any new expecting parents, but I could not live with myself doing that. I was counseled once for trying to console a mother who had just lost her baby and uterus, but she was poor, she was reprimanded for ending the pregnancy. I tried to do the right thing and got called out for it. Thatās why I tell you: try to do the right thing for once and see how far you make it. The JW org is not about helping people, itās about controlling people and itās about power and money, unlike most churches.
And all the above is why I say: JW Lite is not new, itās just what elders and higher ups consider JW to be, but like a pyramid scheme, you need a vast majority of underlings (there is ~1 elder to 20 ālower levelā true believer people) that suffer and pay up with their assets and their life for you to be so cozy.
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ElderBerry
they might say things like; "I am really just here for the social aspect, my wife wants me here with the kids, I enjoy the music, I am agnostic and would like to learn more, I am lonely and this fills a few hours, I'm checking out the men/women, I like the charity work they do, etc... etc..."
No you are wrong .Most religious groups have large numbers of people who are agnostic if they are honest with themselves.
please donāt make the mistake of calling everyone who goes to a church or place of worship a hypocrite if they are PIMA to that religion.
The truth is most members of any religious organisation including JWs are actually like me, they are PIMA if they are truly honest with themselves.
I think the majority of Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and all Christian belief systems have members who are like me, they are PIMA. And all the other vast number of belief systems when they have places where members gather to practice their religious beliefs.
Not one of those comments could you say in a kh and NOT have repercussions as many here live on a daily basis. If you went to a normal church and said " I think it is all b.s
This applies to the majority of belief systems where they gather together somewhere. If members were honest they would say they are PIMA but they go through the motions because that is what agnostic is all about. This is exactly what Pascalās wager is.
Anony Mous
As I keep saying everything you say applies to all belief systems including what ever belief systems you choose now and I donāt even know what you currently choose to believe about how the universe originated.
At least I am being honest with myself and I have reached contentment. I have found stability in Pascalās wager. Iām agnostic but take the wager that maybe God is real I just donāt know. I will live my life as if he is real but Iām humble enough to realise I just donāt know.
JWs may be right about some or many things but they may not be. I just donāt know. I will not do anything that I donāt agree with and keep a low profile I say no to pretty much every thing I get asked to do that Iām not sure about.
I do take lots of meeting parts and do a lot of shepherding work. When I try to help someone who is going through a hard time I use Pascalās wager. They donāt know Iām agnostic this is exactly what pascals wager is when you fully understand it. I talk about the Bibles promises with certainty that this is what the Bible says. This brings great hope and comfort. I love studying the Bible with my congregation.