HELP ME... (page 7)

northern girl

Bradley : Know what you can do?

Yes ......... I'm sure you do.

northern girl.

Well, northern girl, you're a lovely ball of sunshine aren't you? I suppose I'd be frustated as well if I wanted to get back into a mind controlling cult but didn't want to do the work to get back in.

~Aztec

northern girl

Aztec : Who's frustrated? Oh I see ..... you feel obligated to protect poor Bradley. ng

Aztec

No, Bradley can take care of himself. I don't get why you are so seemingly hostile to those of us who are, happily, out of the dubs. Especially considering how kind and welcoming everyone has been to you. Let's just say I take umbrage with your verbage.

~Aztec

northern girl

Aztec : Read back to your second last post and tell me where you were freindly and welcoming to me. ng

Aztec

How bout this northern girl?

Welcome Northern Girl!

Any better?

~Aztec

northern girl

Aztec : MUCH BETTER .... thank you.

AlanF

This is the first I've read this post, but here goes:

Pooh: take Francois' advice. Run while you can. You're not going to get real answers from the JWs; they'll put you off until you either get tired of asking questions, or you go away.

Northern Girl: Quite frankly, I'm at a loss to understand you. You claim that you believe all the JW's teachings -- presumably including the one that you're going to be killed Real Soon Now -- yet you haven't the moral character to step up to the plate and do what's right, and/or you haven't the self-preservation instinct of an insect. Which is it?

Actually I have a better answer: You don't really believe the JW claptrap, and that's why you seem not to care about being killed by God. You protest, but I don't believe you. I don't know you or your inmost motives, but you're obviously far from a dummy, and I seriously doubt that you have no instinct for self-preservation.

As for the JW claptrap, there's plenty of it, and a number of posters here and elsewhere can disprove all of it -- Biblically and secularly. Want a taste of it? Probably not on the surface, but curiosity will get the better of you and you'll read on. So here are a few items (if you want extensive proof, just ask):

The Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses states that all JWs must pretend that the Governing Body speaks for God. This doctrine is largely based on Matthew 24:45. But that scripture is ripped out of context and applied -- with no justification whatsoever -- to the year 1919. Since there is no proof, scripturally or otherwise, for this fundamental doctrine, it is a false teaching and should be rejected.

The Fundamental Doctrine is largely based on the claim that Jesus was appointed as an invisible king over all the earth in 1914. This date is based on a boneheaded application of scattered biblical texts, with no justification beyond "it all hangs together" -- especially from the viewpoint of 1875 when the "Gentile times" doctrine was invented. However, both the Bible and secular history prove that the fundamental reasoning behind this date is wrong -- Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BC but in 587/6 BC, and this clobbers the starting point for the ridiculous "Gentile times of 2,520 years" notion. Thus, 1914 is blown away, and along with it, everything derived from it -- including the claim that the JW "anointed" were appointed over all Christ's belongings in 1919. Because JW leaders are false claiming great things for themselves, they stand condemned as false promoters of themselves and must be rejected by all Christians.

According to the April 1, 1986 Watchtower, anyone who falsely teaches that "the resurrection of the saints" occurred, when it really didn't, is an apostate. The Watchtower Society officially taught that this resurrection occurred in 1881, from its very beginning until 1927. Thus, according to present teaching, Watchtower adherents were all apostates until at least 1927. Therefore God could not have appointed their leaders "over all Christ's belongings" in 1919 -- unless you argue that God is inconsistent and always changes his standards.

The way the JWs practice disfellowshipping is thoroughly unscriptural. Jesus himself gave the procedure for handling congregational shunning, in Matthew 18. The 3rd step, after the offender refused to listen to personal counsel or to counsel by "one or two others", was to take the matter before the entire congregation (ecclesia, Gr.) and let the entire congregation judge the matter. This was in accord with the Mosaic Law which required all such matters to be publicly judged, "in the gates of the city". Since the JWs fail to practice what the Scriptures teach on this subject, they are false teachers and false Christians.

The JWs have invented a number of "disfellowshipping offenses" that are scripturally unjustifiable. Smoking is one of them. I'll leave it at that.

The JW policy on blood transfusions has no real scriptural support, and in fact, the Bible shows it to be completely against God's principles. According to the JWs, Acts 15 forbids blood transfusions by way of interpreting the phrase "abstain from blood" to mean, not just "do not eat blood", but "do not take blood into your body". That right there is a "going beyond what is written", since eating and transfusing blood are in no sense equivalent. JWs also claim that Genesis 9:4 gives an "everlasting law not to eat blood" to mankind. However, Deuteronomy 14:21 explicitly allows non-Jews to eat the blood of dead carcasses -- something specifically forbidden by the Law to the Jews. Since God would not make an explicit allowance for non-Jews to eat blood in violation of a supposed "everlasting law" given to Noah, it is obvious that there is no such law. Therefore Genesis 9:4 is not a prohibition against eating blood, but is a command that when men kill animals for food, they should spill the blood as a token of respect for the Creator of life. That's why non-Jews were allowed by God to eat blood in already-dead carcasses. Thus, neither Acts 15 nor Genesis 9 gives any support to the JW ban on blood transfusions. Finally, Jesus taught explicitly that respect for life is more important than obeying any ritualistic law. He equated saving the life of a sheep on the Sabbath with "doing good on the Sabbath". If saving the life of a sheep on the Sabbath -- doing work specifically prohibited, on pain of death, by the Mosaic Law -- is "doing good", then how much more so is saving the life of a human being via a blood transfusion -- even if it violates a supposed "everlasting law" against eating blood? So on a variety of counts, the JW ban on blood transfusions violates Scriptural principles, as well as common sense.

Now, I could go on for hours with this stuff, but I think you can see the trend. If you're an honest person -- and not the coward you're telling the board you are (I don't believe you) -- you'll take up the gauntlet that's been thrown you and see whether what I've told you is true. You have nothing to lose, and much to gain.

AlanF

northern girl

AlanF : I was about to thank you but now I wonder why. You just managed to play good_cop, bad-cop all by yourself. You can believe or not believe anything I say ... entirely up to you.

You are terribly mistaken to think I am not sincere. My biggest problem is not being able to take shunning and I plan to get over that .... real soon. As for all your reasoning about the JWs beliefs ... suffice to say I believe them ... northern girl.

AlanF

Northern Girl:

: You can believe or not believe anything I say ... entirely up to you.

I explained my reasoning; that should be sufficient.

: You are terribly mistaken to think I am not sincere.

I didn't say you're not sincere. I thought I conveyed clearly that I think you're very screwed up. Not that you can help it. I just wanted to express why I think so. Disfellowshipping has a way of warping one's common sense when one doesn't want to be.

: My biggest problem is not being able to take shunning

No, your biggest problem is thinking that you really believe what the JWs have taught you.

: and I plan to get over that .... real soon.

Ah. Visiting "apostate" websites is perhaps giving you a bit of courage?

: As for all your reasoning about the JWs beliefs ... suffice to say I believe them ... northern girl.

Well then, perhaps the JWs are ideal for you, since it's obvious that reasoning does not work with you or them. You've certainly swallowed the Fundamental Doctrine of JWs hook, line and sinker.

Well, don't say you weren't warned. I just find it sad that an intelligent woman has to suck up to some religious leaders in order to feel like a real person.

AlanF

HELP ME...

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