I agree. This is why there can be no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Either you are not a Muslim, or not a moderate. Every moderate will sooner or later have to stop taking anything about the faith seriously or become a radical.
Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed
by cofty 342 Replies latest members politics
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slimboyfat
No doubt the religious teachings are important to get some young men go the final mile and commit murder.
Just as racist ideology is what finally pushed Brevik, McVey, Roof, Bissonnette and others to commit murder.
What lies behind the alienation of all such murderers from broader society and makes them susceptible to extremist religous and racist ideas?
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cofty
What lies behind the alienation of all such murderers from broader society and makes them susceptible to extremist religous and racist ideas?
There is no common ground between Islamic terrorists and individuals like Brevik.
Muslim terrorists can only do those things because of the support and approval of a wider community. Sam Harris draws a straight line from beliefs to suicide bombers but Jonathan Haidt is more correct in describing the three-way interaction between beliefs, community and actions.
Alienation is not a factor in Islamic terrorism, the opposite is true in most cases.
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scotsman
I just wanted to see if one of you would admit
we definitely helped create the current wave of extremism
Admitting the causes are complex but suggesting the solutions are execute/intern/deport/bulldoze strikes me as simplistic. The war on terror will be as successful as the war on drugs - they're neat soundbites. We'd need the equivalent of the Stasi to maintain the level of monitoring suggested, I'd rather live with the risk than under that. Has anyone been persuaded to change their views on Muslims by the arguments from Simon, hotbanero, Cofty, or LUHE?
I was at an Obama fundraiser last week. He compared our acceptance of 3000 people dying a day being the price we pay for cars to terrorism being the price we pay for open democracies - a comparison that will no doubt make you blow your tops.
Bon nuit. -
cofty
Obama .. compared our acceptance of 3000 people dying a day being the price we pay for cars to terrorism being the price we pay for open democracies
Disgraceful!
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_Morpheus
Thats patently stupid and typical of obama and his ilk, to present a false choice. Either people die or we cant be an open democracy....
nonsense. Both are attainable. Common sense Security Dosent have to encrouch on freedom or democracy.
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Simon
Well the man who tried to blow me up in Glasgow didn't cite religion. He came from Fallujah and was traumatised by the deaths of many people he knew. For some there is a personal motivation like that.
Lots of people from many different backgrounds have suffered terrible loss from war and other conflicts. Muslims are almost unique in their ability to blame others, people totally unconnected with the events, and want to enact some violent revenge on them.
Or maybe they are just following orders (from their prophet).
Whatever it is, can we stop with the ridiculous excuses. Yippee, you trotted off the names of a few white christian (?) mass killers and had to go back many years to do it. But their religion, if they had one, was more incidental than cause, unlike with Islamic murderers.
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Simon
Often we hear the comments from aquantainces: "he was never interested in religion before". Or how they visited stip clubs or got drunk all the time and had problems with drugs and so on.
You're showing your ignorance of their teachings.
They do these things for 2 reasons:
1. As a deception to those who, like you, are easily fooled into thinking "they're not devout Muslims!" (so not a threat)
2. Because Jihad is a fast-track, express ticket to heaven so any "sins" they commit don't count, so why not ...
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Simon
Admitting the causes are complex but suggesting the solutions are execute/intern/deport/bulldoze strikes me as simplistic.
They are more likely to be solutions than "diversity is our strength" or "let's do away with borders". Maybe if we just hug them more, they'll stop blowing children to pieces and raping young girls.
The war on terror will be as successful as the war on drugs - they're neat soundbites.
No because the war on terror is an actual war ... with guns and bombs and war stuff. Did you miss that?
We'd need the equivalent of the Stasi to maintain the level of monitoring suggested, I'd rather live with the risk than under that.
Bullshit - until someone you know has their legs blown off. How many is enough before we take action? Please provide a number of children that you find acceptable to be murdered.
Has anyone been persuaded to change their views on Muslims by the arguments from Simon, hotbanero, Cofty, or LUHE?
I don't care if no one changes their views. I care about speaking out and not being silenced because of leftist assholes. The world needs more people to stand up and shout out and not be silenced. So if nothing else, I want to demonstrate that you can stand up and say no - you're the bad person for saying the deaths are acceptable.
I was at an Obama fundraiser last week. He compared our acceptance of 3000 people dying a day being the price we pay for cars to terrorism being the price we pay for open democracies - a comparison that will no doubt make you blow your tops.
Well, he is a complete wanker. Really, he is an utter, utter pathetic piece of shit to come out with crap like that. How about "black people being shot is the price we pay for law and order" - does that work for him I wonder?
His legacy is already in the crapper, it's just going to keep sliding down the porcelain the way he's going. What a grand job he did in his time in office ... all those accomplishments like:
erm ...
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MeanMrMustard
@Simon:
Muslims are not allowed to wage offensive jihad unless the Caliph authorizes it. The caliphate was abolished in the 1920s by the Turkish government.
In the absence of authorization by the Caliph, the only way jihad can be waged is in a defensive manner.
This is why they always find grievances. It is just a work-around until the Caliphate is restored.
MMM