An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 121)

THE GLADIATOR

Having followed this most interesting debate, it seems that non-believers are not able to accept that decent Christian people can believe in a personal God of love who is prepared to allow suffering. Their conclusion is that God either does not exist or is an impersonal being who takes no responsibility for the state of the world.

For non-believers this a hypothetical debate whereas believers have a vested interest in defending a personal God of love who allows suffering. The Christians have explained how they are able to reconcile a God of love allowing suffering. Their answers have not satisfied those without faith. The debate has moved to a point where Christians are now being blamed for the suffering because they endorse this God. It is for this reason that the debate has become personal.

I do not believe in a personal God but accept that decent loving people can believe in a personal God who allows suffering. Although the logic of a personal God does not add up for me, it would be a mistake to become angry with loving people who view the big picture and still find room for belief in a personal God. Many of us once accepted the idea of Armageddon and showed our love by going from door-to-door warning others. We are still the same people.

Who knows how our views may change in the years ahead? The experience of those who have walked a path before us should not be seized upon as belief, or a shortcut to understanding. At the same time it would be unwise to disregard their sincere testimony or judge them because we have not arrived at the same place.

ShadesofGrey

Being able to replicate the writing style of someone to whom God spoke does not mean that the Spirit was in the words. Even the prophets and Bible writers said some wrong things on their own... but not when God said it.

You don't know the Most Holy One of Israel, N?

ShadesofGrey

Thank you Gladiator.

N.drew

I still don't know my husband and we have been married for 26 years, or so. OK. to be fair, yes I know the Most Holy One of Israel. But when I realize how the Holy One knows me, then I can truly confess YES! I know HIM!

tec

We are all guilty of this tec,....we are adults in a debate forum,....if you lose sleep, because of what a person says here,.....(we will get over it and live another day).

I was talking about in the world, not on here. Those things done to people every day; they do have consequences as well.

Freedom to kill/maim, is not freedom or freewill,...... it is barbaric.

It just makes you a completely free agent. No restrictions on what you can choose to do. Consequences are not restrictions.

It starts with the physical,....... certain physical needs have to be met. Isn' t the spirit of a starving or a chronically ill person affected, by their physical condition?

Someone whose physical needs are not met is going to have a harder time even caring about anything else, that is true.

But if it had to start with the physical, we wouldn't have any rich people committing suicide, or getting addicted to drugs, or hurting others, or depressed, or divorced or whatever. (Not even rich... just fed, housed, all physical needs met.) Suffering takes all kinds of people, in all stations of life... physical suffering is only one part of it.

Peace,

Tammy

tec

Gladiator, thank you for that analysis. I think you are spot on. Hopefully you at least, can be seen as impartial.

Peace,

Tammy

PSacramento

Gladiator has thrown his net around the correct and stabbed with his trident and finished it with his gladius !

He has beatne the internet !!

Well said my friend :)

TheUbermensch

Yikes AGuest. MY post about 30 or so pages back wasn't even close to that. You took someone's personal life/story and then turned it against them and used it as an argument against them. Personally, if I were OTWO, I wouldn't even speak to you. That was absolutely unneccessary, and vile.

I love how when fingers point at non believers concerning the motive for arguing it's because we have some sort of intolerance for belief in a personal knowledge. We've offered plenty of reasons to the contrary. If that was the only reason for me to be here, still arguing after 60 pages of getting nowhere, I would have given up long ago. Please don't offer any more blanket generalizations concerning ALL non believers and their motives, something that is truly unknown to you, something that can be very personal for certain people, especially when your bias is quite obvious when you state it.

N.drew

No, AGuest knows that if the status quo remains between OTWO and The Holy One, then OTWO will go out with the name "blasphemer". What she is doing is holding up her precious mirror (that she is risking) because she loves him. She loves us. I don't know why. She doesn't have to to save her life. That is how she is in the image of the prophets. She is taking risks to HELP us, not HURT us. Thank you AGuest!

tec

I think this should have ended after Gladiator's summation, but I should respond to OTWO, because he did direct something to me.

I do not think it is 'nice' of Shelby to throw your past, and the things you may have done (or not done) as an Elder, at you. But I also don't think it is 'nice' of you to call her crazy, a troll, a liar, and start threads just to mock her (and others who hear/use the name Jaheshua).

Neither of you answers to me though.

I just thought I would point out that you can't honestly poke someone with little sticks and then cry foul when you get slapped upside the head with a log.

I wish the two of you could reset. But I think you're going to be the two people at the table in the coffee house who butt heads until the end of time.

Peace to you both,

Tammy

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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