Boston tragedy - once again Islam is the common thread in another terrorist attack

by tootired2care 138 Replies latest members politics

  • dreamgolfer
    dreamgolfer

    tootired....

    hey bruddah, I think the problem is in YOUR MIND, think about it, I are jumping to conclusions

    Boston= Columbine

    Boston = Aurora

    Boston = Newtown

    MENTAL MISFITS carried this out, IF THEY were doing for ALLAH, they BOTH would have just blown themselves up and not made it a "Hide and Seek" case

    These Idiots are NO WAY Religious,

    Like i said earlier - listen up..THEIR RELATIVES SAID THEY WERE STARK RAVING BONKERS - just like the Maggots in the 3 towns I listed above,

    Please stop drawing attention to yourself and them (they dont deserve it)

    Have a nice weekend!

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    -

    “The point I'm trying to make is that military efforts to stop religious conflicts are NEVER going to work and only serve to perpetuate the issues and make them worse.”

    When I read that statement I thought to myself, “No truer words have ever been spoken.”

    Then I read this:

    “…the only way we'll rid this world of religious nutters being a danger to themselves and others is to -stop- killing and to educate people.”

    And I found truer words.

    Well said, Simon!

    Very well said.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    @dreamgolfer

    I disagree, I think the problem is that you're just in denial. Are you studying to become a Muslim?

    MENTAL MISFITS carried this out, IF THEY were doing for ALLAH, they BOTH would have just blown themselves up and not made it a "Hide and Seek" case

    Your assuming that their methods are static, why not evolve, and escape and commit more acts of terror?

    These Idiots are NO WAY Religious

    Yes they were, read the prior threads, and watch the news and inform yourself.

    Like i said earlier - listen up..THEIR RELATIVES SAID THEY WERE STARK RAVING BONKERS - just like the Maggots in the 3 towns I listed above,

    That in no way disproves that Islam was a common thread.

    Please stop drawing attention to yourself and them (they dont deserve it)

    Oh spare me...I'm not concerned with myself. I'm angry that this happened, and like many others, I'm interetsted in the why, not in denial or coddling a another bullsh1t religion. In this case part of that why is Islam, if you bother to look at the facts.

    @d - Islam is a religion of peace.Their are only a few muslim extremists.

    This is not even a remotely true statement. How about you put this to a test; go to a public square in Iran, and have a public disagreement with the teachings of Muhammad, and come back and report how your test of the "religion of peace" went mmmkay. In a way it's kind of a forgleam of how it would be in the kingdom that we spent so much of our lives pursuing.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    THE CATHOLIC CHURCH - are you kidding me ?

    erm ... the crusades.

    Supporting Hitler and various other dictators. Giving refuge to Nazis masters guilty of terrible things.

    Islam is the same.

    It's NOT religion. It's another organisation. another form of controling and enslaving the masses, to get them to do your bidding for you. It's POLITICS. It's wealth, power and control. They are puppet masters.

    Religion is just a FRONT. Dig deep behind the scenes and you will see this. Corruption, abuse, crime, warlords, drugs, weapons, wealth, property.

    Drug money is now propping up the 'real'economy. There is so much going on , we have no idea.

    Are not Muslims and Buddhists kiling each other.

    Does anyone watch news on Aljazeera, Russia tv news, France 24 ?

    Northern Ireland. Crime, drugs, king pins. Links to libya for training, gaddafi for support, weapons etc.

  • Sam Whiskey
    Sam Whiskey

    Why is there a non-stop reference to the Crusades on the Muslims? Is this an attempt to defend those who WANT to kill all infidels? The Crusades happened around the 1100's. We're in the 2000's, why the comparison? That was 900 NINE HUNDRED years ago, you can't compare.

    Are we really trying to say; "Well the Christians did that 900 years ago, now it's our turn, and it's okay."?

  • jws
    jws

    Why don't we just admit - religion is a common thread.

    Let's not forget the history of Christianity. Or even more recent radicals like those who bomb abortion clinics or kill abortion doctors in the name of Christianity. Because their beliefs tell them it's wrong. These people are every bit the terrorist as those who bombed the marathon.

    Here's a novel idea. If you have to believe in fairy tales, keep them to yourself. If Tinker Bell, Jesus, Jehovah, or Allah tells you something is wrong and you believe in them, don't do it. But don't harm anybody else for doing these things.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    Are we really trying to say; "Well the Christians did that 900 years ago, now it's our turn, and it's okay."?

    Yes it's a lame attempt to distract from the BS beliefs of Islam.

    If you have to believe in fairy tales, keep them to yourself. If Tinker Bell, Jesus, Jehovah, or Allah tells you something is wrong and you believe in them, don't do it.

    I'd argue that other religions for the most part, are already here (which is a good thing), with Islam being the glaring exception. You have entire countries and billions suppressed from having basic human rights in 2013! All of this courtesy of Islam the religion of peace. Peace or rather in pieces if you don't agree with it - there really is no comparison.

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    the boys name is Tamerlane? Why would his parents have named him this? It's like a redneck naming his son, Robert E. Lee.

    Tamerlane - Timur the Lame Biography

    By Kallie Szczepanski, About.com Guide

    See More About: Bust based on facial reconstruction done after Timur's body was exhumed in 1941.

    Bronze bust of Amir Timur, aka "Tamerlane."

    Public domain, via Wikipedia (Uzbek version) More Images (2)
    Throughout history, few names have inspired such terror as "Tamerlane."

    That was not the Central Asian conqueror's actual name, though. More properly, he is known as Timur, from the Turkic word for "iron."

    Amir Timur is remembered as a vicious conqueror, who razed ancient cities to the ground and put entire populations to the sword. On the other hand, he is also known as a great patron of the arts, literature, and architecture. One of his signal achievements is his capital at the beautiful city of Samarkand, in modern-day Uzbekistan.

    A complicated man, Timur continues to fascinate us some six centuries after his death.

    Timur's Early Life:

    Timur was born in 1336, near the city of Kesh (now called Shahrisabz), about 50 miles south of the oasis of Samarkand, in Transoxiana.

    The child's father, Taragay, was the chief of the Barlas tribe. The Barlas were of mixed Mongolian and Turkic ancestry, descended from the hordes of Genghis Khanand the earlier inhabitants of Transoxiana. Unlike their nomadic ancestors, the Barlas were settled agriculturalists and traders.

    Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Arabshah's 14th century biography, "Tamerlane or Timur: The Great Amir," stated that Timur was descended from Genghis Khan on his mother's side; this probably is not true.

    Disputed Causes of Timur's Lameness:

    The European versions of Timur's name -- "Tamerlane" or "Tamberlane" -- are based on the Turkic nickname Timur-i-leng, meaning "Timur the Lame."

    Timur's body was exhumed by a Russian team lead by archaeologist Mikhail Gerasimov in 1941, and they found evidence of two healed wounds on Timur's right leg. His right hand was also missing two fingers.

    The anti-Timurid author Arabshah says that Timur was shot while stealing sheep. More likely, he was wounded in 1363 or 1364, while fighting as a mercenary for Sistan (southeastern Iran) as stated by contemporary chroniclers Ruy Clavijo and Sharaf al-Din Ali Yazdi.

    Transoxiana's Political Situation:

    During Timur's youth, Transoxiana was riven by conflict between the local nomadic clans and the sedentary Chagatay Mongol khans who ruled them.

    The Chagatay had abandoned the mobile ways of Genghis Khan and their other ancestors, and taxed the people heavily in order to support their urban lifestyle. Naturally, this angered their citizens.

    In 1347, a local amir ("prince") named Kazgan seized power from the Chagatay ruler Borolday. Kazgan would rule until his assassination in 1358.

    After Kazgan's death, various warlords and religious leaders vied for power. Tughluk Timur, a Mongol warlord, emerged victorious in 1360.

    Young Timur Gains and Loses Power:

    Timur's uncle Hajji Beg led the Barlas at this time, but refused to submit to Tughluk Timur. The Hajji fled, and the new Mongol ruler decided to install the seemingly more pliable young Timur to rule in his stead.

    In fact, Timur was already plotting against the Mongols. He formed an alliance with the grandson of Kazgan, Amir Hussein, and married Hussein's sister Aljai Turkanaga.

    The Mongols soon caught on; Timur and Hussein were dethroned and forced to turn bandit in order to survive.

    In 1362, the legend says, Timur's following was reduced to two: Aljai, and one other. They were even imprisoned in Persia for two months.

    Timur 's Conquests Begin:

    Timur's bravery and tactical skill made him a successful mercenary soldier in Persia, and he soon collected a large following. In 1364, Timur and Hussein banded together again and defeated Ilyas Khoja, the son of Tughluk Timur.

    By 1366, the two warlords controlled Transoxiana.

    Timur's wife died in 1370, freeing him to attack his erstwhile ally Hussein. Hussein was besieged and killed at Balkh, and Timur declared himself the sovereign of the whole region. Timur was not directly descended from Genghis Khan, so he ruled as an amir, rather than as khan.

    Over the next decade, Timur seized the rest of Central Asia, as well.

    Timur's Empire Expands:

    With Central Asia in hand, Timur invaded Russia in 1380. He helped the Mongol Khan Toktamysh retake control, and also defeated the Lithuanians in battle.

    Timur captured Herat in 1383, the opening salvo against Persia. By 1385, all of Persia was his.

    With invasions in 1391 and 1395, Timur fought against his former protege in Russia, Toktamysh. The Timurid army captured Moscow in 1395.

    While Timur was busy in the north, Persia revolted. He responded by leveling entire cities, and using the citizens' skulls to build grisly towers and pyramids.

    By 1396, Timur had conquered Iraq, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Mesopotamia and Georgia.

    Timur Conquers India, Syria, and Turkey:

    Timur's army of 90,000 crossed the Indus River in September, 1398 and set upon India. The country had fallen to pieces after the death of Firuz Shah; Bengal, Kashmir and the Deccan each had separate rulers.

    The Turkic/Mongol invaders left carnage along their path; Delhi's army was destroyed in December, and the city ruined. Timur seized tons of treasure and 90 war elephants, and took them back to Samarkand.

    Timur looked west in 1399, retaking Azerbaijan and conquering Syria. Baghdad was destroyed in 1401, and 20,000 of its people slaughtered. In July of 1402, Timur captured Turkey and received submission from Egypt.

    Timur's Final Campaign and Death:

    The rulers of Europe were glad that the Ottoman Turk sultan Bayazid had been defeated, but they trembled at the idea that "Tamerlane" was at their doorstep. The rulers of Spain, France, and other powers sent congratulatory embassies to Timur, hoping to stave off an attack.

    Timur had bigger goals, though. He decided in 1404 that he would conquer Ming China. (The ethnic-Han Ming Dynasty had overthrown his cousins, the Yuan, in 1368.)

    The Timurid army set out in December, during an unusually cold winter. Men and horses died of exposure, and the 68-year-old Timur fell ill. He died in February, 1405 at Otrar, in Kazakhstan.

    Timur's Legacy:

    Timur started life as the son of a minor chieftain, much like his putative ancestor Genghis Khan. Through sheer intelligence, military skill and force of personality, Timur was able to conquer an empire stretching from Russia to India, and from the Mediterranean Sea to Mongolia.

    Unlike Genghis Khan, however, Timur conquered not to open trade routes and protect his flanks, but to loot and pillage. The Timurid Empire did not long survive its founder, because he rarely bothered to put any governmental structure in place after he destroyed the existing order.

    While Timur professed to be a good Muslim, he obviously felt no compunction about destroying the jewel-cities of Islam and slaughtering their inhabitants. Damascus, Khiva, Baghdad... these ancient capitals of Islamic learning never really recovered from Timur's attentions. His intent seems to have been to make his capital at Samarkand the first city of the Islamic world.

    Contemporary sources say that Timur's forces killed about 19 million people during their conquests. That number is probably exaggerated, but Timur does seem to have enjoyed massacre for its own sake.

    Timur's Descendants

    Despite a death-bed warning from the conqueror, his sons and grandsons immediately began to fight over the throne when he passed away. The most successful Timurid ruler, Timur's grandson Uleg Beg, gained fame as an astronomer and scholar. Uleg was not a good administrator, however, and was murdered by his own son in 1449.

    Timur's line had better luck in India, where his great-great-grandson Babur founded the Mughal Dynasty in 1526. The Mughuls ruled until 1857, when the British expelled them. (Shah Jahan, builder of the Taj Mahal, is thus also a descendent of Timur.)

    Timur's Reputation

    Timur was lionized in the west for his defeat of the Ottoman Turks. Christopher Marlowe'sTamburlaine the Great and Edgar Allen Poe's "Tamerlane" are good examples.

    Not surprisingly, the people of Turkey, Iran and the Middle East remember him rather less favorably.

    In post-Soviet Uzbekistan, Timur has been made into a national folk hero. The people of Uzbek cities like Khiva, however, are skeptical; they remember that he razed their city and killed nearly every inhabitant.

    Sources

    Clavijo, "Narrative of the Embassy of Ruy Gonzalez de Clavijo to the Court of Timour, A.D. 1403-1406," trans. Markham (1859).

    Encyclopedia Britannica on-line.

    Marozzi, "Tamerlane: Sword of Islam, Conqueror of the World" (2006).

    Saunders, "History of the Mongol Conquests" (1971).

  • Glander
    Glander

    ..."Take away the reasons to hate and the hate may just go away. It's less exciting and dramatic and won't win anyone any elections but it is the only way."

    Hard to argue with...but naive.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    For the military machine, this is exactly what they want - lots of sales and profit to be made.

    If you don't understand the politics of the region, you will never understand Fundamentalist Islam. Islam is just another religion. It's no better or worse than Christianity. Neither is the Quran more violent. As for those who have 'read' the Quran, that doesn't really mean anything since the Quran is only one source of fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence). The other sources are the hadith, juristic logic (basically Aristotelian logic to resolve conflicting Quranic texts/hadiths), and ijma (consensus). Additionally, the Quranic texts are subject to the Doctrine of Abrogation by the sunna. An easily understood analogy is that of a statute that says one thing, but case law that interprets the statute to mean the exact opposite, which frequently occurs.

    I'm in an Islamic Law class right now, along with a woman from the Sharia Court of Afghanistan, a woman from The Kingdom, a second Afghani female national, and several Muslim men, but the women totally dominate them in class. It's hilarious. The class is taught by one of the few legal professors in the U.S. qualified to teach such a class. He is both a U.S. Constitutional Law and Islamic Law professor. For those of you who are interested in learning more about Islamic law--without the anti-Islam drama--I am providing a link to his SSRN page. It has multiple articles that anyone can download for free.

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=480600

    For a basic primer on Islamic law, look at the article on top. From that article, you can learn much of what I am learning, but it will not cost you the $5, 000 I am paying for just this one class. : )

    Back to the topic...

    Nevertheless, like all religions, Islam is routinely used to legitimize otherwise unacceptable political and military behavior. We don't tell our soldiers that we need them to offer their lives for oil. Neither do Muslim political leaders and political-leader wannabes.

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